The Data Exchange Podcast: Dan Geer and Andrew Burt on security and privacy in the age of machine learning and AI.
In this episode of the Data Exchange I speak with Dan Geer, Senior Fellow at In-Q-tel and Andrew Burt, co-founder and Managing Partner of BNH.ai1 and Chief Legal Officer at Immuta. Dan is one the leading experts in cybersecurity and risk management, and he has written numerous influential essays on security, privacy, and risk (examples here and here). Andrew serves as co-founder of a new law firm focused on AI compliance and related topics. BNH is the first law firm run by lawyers and technologists focused on helping companies identify and mitigate those risks.
Andrew and Dan have jointly written some of my favorite essays pertaining to risk and security and privacy, so I was thrilled to have a far ranging three-way conversation with them. Here are some articles jointly written by Dan and Andrew:
- “Improving Cybersecurity Means Taking More Care with What We Digitize”
- “Flat Light: Data Protection for the Disoriented, From Policy to Practice”
- “The End of Privacy”
We covered a range of topics touching on security and privacy, particularly in the context of data, machine learning and AI. We began with their thoughts on data fusion:
- You put this piece of data with that, with another, with another and pretty soon there’s there’s no hiding … A game I have actually played on stage twice, was to pick a member of the audience and begin asking 20 questions. But the questions each of them were … sort of vaguely revealing … And nobody gets to 20 before they object. Because the point is, you start combining all these seeming non sequiturs. And you get a kind of a biographical picture, that is beyond what most people would want to do. So that is the power of putting data together.
… The question is, how can we protect our data writ large? And how can we protect our data from inferences that we are not comfortable with third parties making. Inferences that we might not even know or suspect are available.
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- A video version of this conversation appears on our YouTube channel.
- Andrew Burt: “Identifying and mitigating liabilities and risks associated with AI”
- Ram Shankar: “Securing machine learning applications”
- Rumman Chowdury: “Responsible AI meets Reality”
- Jack Morris: “Increasing the robustness of natural language applications”
- “Navigate the road to Responsible AI”
 I am an advisor to BNH.ai.